Why Do Women Love BL? Discuss Your Reasons

Yep, Jpny is voicing what was reason #5 on my list.  That is, women love BL because it's a hot man x's2, just as men love lesbians in porn because it's a hot woman x's2.   

In answer to Eilif's question,  "do any women watching BL just find it easier or more pleasant to identify with men character?"   Yes, absolutely.   This speaks to the #1 reason on my list, which was that women like seeing 2 partners on an equal footing, since they are both the same gender.   Men enjoy more freedom, especially in Asia where gender roles are still pretty traditional.  This is changing, of course, and Asia is on its way with feminism and gay rights, but it's still a tad behind the West.  

Eilif, as for you being 40, I am glad to hear that.  I am 55 and feel ancient in this community. The demographic for fujoshis is females aged 18-30.    I am 25 years older than most of the women here! 

Pure, old fashioned entertainment is absolutely what it's all about.  Nevertheless, when people who've never heard of BL discover it's made by and consumed by women they always ask "why?"  Because they, like me, had assumed that gay men consumed gay male content.  When the question "why" is always asked, one is compelled to figure it out. 

But this is not what I'm thinking as I watch.  I am simply engaged in the plot and characters as I watch.   Except for Thai BL's because, as you said, they have no plots, lol.   Man, can you believe that make 100+ a year?   That's 2 new BL's each week!  They are money making machines stuffed with product placement.  A Thai BL is really just advertisements dressed up a little with some actors around the sides.    No other country seeks revenue this way, and their BL's are all better for  it. 

J-BL's are made at a slower pace and, hence, more thoughtfully made.  Makes sense, since the Japanese started the trend of BL. It was women making them back in the 1970's.   Hard to believe they've been around that long, cuz they did not really flourish in Asia until the recent decade.   And as you noted, they flourished with the younger generation.   I am not their target market in terms of age cuz I am 55, but I am the target market in terms of gender, since I am a female.  

Based on your statement, I assume you are also older than the standard BL demographic age. If so, glad to meet you cuz I feel so ancient in this community!   And even if not, I still appreciate you coming to this Discussion Group. It's generated fascinating replies all week and, thus, I've learned a lot about the genre as well as about we fujoshis.  We are a small, but fierce, breed, eh?

 jpny01:

As it turns out, I am also 55!

Yay, I am not alone!  lol.   You know, I should've guessed you were older because you are not as censorious as the kids in their 20's.   The current generation is really into speech codes and censorship.  I grew up, however, when liberals hated censorship and staged a massive Free Speech Protest at Berkeley.   In fact, you can always tell  the older liberals from the younger liberals based on where we stand on Free Speech.  

At any rate, I am glad to have you in this group both because your age makes you different from the standard demo, and your gender and orientation as  a gay male also makes you different.   I think a male fan of BL is called a fujanshi, right?  it's something like that. 

 maidenholmes:

If this is a competition for the oldest one here: My oldest children are 54 and 56.  I was at San Francisco State during the 60's. Interesting times...

Perhaps I should take a look at a BL drama that is considered good. My feeling generally is that it would be depressing to see nice attractive guys - of whom there are a shortage in the real world - and they're only interested in each other. So I'm a bit puzzled about why straight women enjoy this genre but so far not enough to follow up on it.

Lol, I was puzzled too.  That's why I researched it and came up with the 5 reasons I cited on page 1 of this discussion.  Then some people added other reasons.  A big reason is that we get to see the cute boys xs2 and don't have to imagine other women as competition.  This is why men like seeing lesbians in porn so much.  There even was a running joke on that sitcom "Friends" where the hetero men always wanted to see pretty girls kissing and I never understood it. But now that I discovered BL, I can understand the phenomena  from a women's perspective.  

Since you are on MDL then I assume you like Asian drama, so if you want to try a  BL I suggest starting with the Japanese one called "Cherry Magic." It was hugely popular even with non-BL fans, and that's why I think it's a good place for a non BL fan like you to start with.  Make sure you watch the original 12 part series first, not the sequel, which is a movie.   It is utterly charming and impossible to dislike! 

 jpny01:

A good idea of what I mean by "fetishize" can be seen in the discussion section of Stay With Me, the censored remake of Addicted Heroin.  A large proportion of the comments are about how people are so glad all the toxic elements of Addicted are removed - what they want is cute boys being cute to each other and that's it. You would think when they were watching a series entitled ADDICTED HEROIN that they might have gotten a hint that it might be about obsession. I do like Stay With Me just based on the high quality of everything and the excellent acting, but it's been taken from something different and original and made into a "standard" BL. 

One of the best things about Addicted is that the uke is just as athletic and formidable as a person - maybe more so - than the seme, but here he's lost a lot of his agency and he's rather passive. And everoyne LOVES it. Cute boys being cute to each other.

OMG,  we truly do think alike. Because I despaired of all the comments saying that Stay With Me was Addicted "minus the toxicity."   The instant I see the term "toxicity" I cringe because I know what's coming.  And in this case, it was particularly annoying because what they called toxicity was precisely the intensity that made the show so different.   I might also add that it was what made the Asians go boffo for it.  

The Asians not only liked Gu Ha's intense pursuit of Buy Luo Yin, but they also liked how both boys were masculine.  As you noted, this was not the stereotypical strong seme with weak uke setup. That's why the sex scene with BLY wanting to top GH and GH saying "sure" was so great.  We could imagine it either way (My Beautiful Man also subverted stereotypes with the more aggressive Kiyoi as the bottom). 

 I knew Addicted was a hit in China so I was surprised by the low rating on MDL when I first checked.  Then I began reading the actual comments and thought, oh boy, here we go with the "rape" and "sexual assault" charges.   Most of the youtube channels even censor the scene from episode 12 where Gu Ha forces Bay Luo Yin onto the bed to give him a hand job.  I deeply resent having things censored for me as if I were 5 years old and cannot handle it.  Perhaps these younger kids want to be protected from virtually anything graphic, but I do not.  I finally ended up watching on Viki, an Asian site, which ran the episode in its entirety.   

Funny, but I had just said in a comment above that I should've guessed you were my age based on how you never ask for censorship in these shows.  You can tell the dividing line between older and younger liberals based on their stance on censorship.  Older liberals protested against censorship in the 60's and 70's.  Today's younger liberals, however, actually promote it.  

Addicted certainly skirted with issues of sexual assault, but based on what I've read from Chinese BL novels, there is something cultural where they think forced sex is ok.  I see it constantly. I also see men fall in love with their rapists. To be clear, I don't think Gu Ha was a rapist. But he did force himself on Buy Luo Yin.  So I can see many disliking that scene.  Still, I did not want that scene censored .   I can decide myself if I want to fast forward through it or not.  It was so patronizing to censor it for me as if I were a kid.  Gotta say, I resented that.

Other than that scene, however, I think we can all agree that Addicted did a nice job of defying stereotypes of the uke/seme.  I was surprised, given how that author loves her stereotypes. Going back to the original discussion about women in BL, I think that women identify with the uke, and that this is why they want these roles to be so specific.  A man can both penetrate and be penetrated, while a woman can only be penetrated.  Thus, we see ourselves in the uke. 

@E-Maya

I completely agree with this.  The uke gives in to the monstrous, unnatural and perverted lusts of the seme as a reward, not for good behavior, but for providing him with the protection and guidance he needs - to stay alive, apparently, since ukes are totally useless and usually lack almost all agency.  I might be exaggerating just a tad, but the infantilization of the uke is usually rather front and center - they need someone to dry their hair, fight off villains, tie their shoes, prevent them from falling down staircases, and heal their fevers resulting from being hit by a basketball (which has actually happened). It's amazing how easily ukes get fevers. Once, an uke managed to cut himself with a butter knife.  I think you'd need to saw at someone for a good 20 minutes to draw blood with a butter knife, but an uke can manage it.

 Maggi64:

Going back to the original discussion about women in BL, I think that women identify with the uke, and that this is why they want these roles to be so specific.  A man can both penetrate and be penetrated, while a woman can only be penetrated.  Thus, we see ourselves in the uke. 

I suppose I'd have to say I identify with the uke in a sense, since I see the similarity in the way women and ukes are depicted, and get as mad over it as I do. So I don't wan't the roles to be specific in this way. 

Isn't it a contradiction to say women like BL because there's not the baggage of the female character and at the same times say women identify with the uke and want the roles to be specific.

 jpny01:

It's amazing how easily ukes get fevers. Once, an uke managed to cut himself with a butter knife.  I think you'd need to saw at someone for a good 20 minutes to draw blood with a butter knife, but an uke can manage it.

Too funny! Isn't the idea that wet hair is gonna make you sick or feverish a real, although misguided, belief in the east. A bit like the old folk where I come from think you should not sit on anything cold or you'll get a urinary tract infection. So not all calamities are uke specific.