jpny01:
I totally agree that a woman can write good gay fiction and have every right to. This current idea about appropriatioon is ridiculous. If people are only allowed to write about their own experiences of identity, you might as well abolish all genres of fiction, and you're also reducing the opportunities for people to develop empathy and understanding.
I don't think you should approach writing without any knowlege of the subject you're writing about, though.
Bingo. I teach literature and most authors write about other identities. Perhaps they use some of their own life for material, but they also observe others and research other modes of living to write about those other identities too. My issue with women writing BL's is that they don't research. If they simply interviewed gay men they would find out about anal sex and, hence, write about it more realistically. My fave BL novel by a woman is My Beautiful Man. The sex scenes in that book make sex actually feel appealing, whereas the sex scenes in the most other BL's are as E_Maya said, so violently painful as to be upsetting. It's not only offensive to equate gay male sex with pain, ie, reducing it to negativity, but it's also just plain bad writing. A good writer should research and get it right.
One of the earlier BLs I watched was Make it Right - I was really confused about why Book had to go seek medical attention afterwards - I thought I missed something and checked back to earlier episodes to see where he got sick or was injured. I actually had to be told why because it didn't occur to me at all - I thought maybe they were going to get tested for STDs or something,
I think the worst I've felt was after a particulary rough (totally consensual) round was a soreness similar to hemorrhoids - not pleasant, but stil totally worth it. I did feel it for a few days, but nothing serious. That's just me, but I think you'll find that many people have had that experience.
I also wondered why Book had to go to a doctor. It depicted gay sex as a sickness requiring immediate medical attention. Now, Frame did tell the nurse at the clinic that he had been "too rough" with his partner. Perhaps rough sex would result in tearing some tissue, but even that would not be a big deal. Yet they made it a very big deal in the show. Frame not only took Book to the doctor, but also kept asking Book about his "condition" for days afterward.
yonghwa7:
This is the truly funny part of this conversation. ? As ridiculous as some of the depictions of sex are, I think it’s important to bring it back to the fact that BL is largely written by women, for women, and about men (unlike LGBTQ+ content).
First, women are writing what they think other women would find entertaining and perhaps humorous. Second, as women do not have a prostate, naturally they would relate to AS as being just painful (when in fact men can and do find it extremely pleasurable - even straight men). And third, is there perhaps some satisfying retribution for a history of painful mental and sexual abuse heaped on women by men?
Of course gay men are going to respond, “it’s not like that!” However, do the female authors writing for women care? Or should they?
To an extent, they should. Gay men are an extremely oppressed minority, and depicting the gay sex act as immoral and physically dangerous is not OK. As if there aren't enough damaging misconceptions.
If there were a popular genre that denigrated women, would that be OK? Because there are such genres, and there are strong objections to them.
Personally, I wonder why female characters in BL are so awful - if BL authors are lashing out at anyone, it's fellow women. I suspect that is what is retribution for a history of painful abuse heaped on some BL writers by other women.
But beyond that, effeminate characteristics in men are portrayed as degenerate - flaming men and trans characters are often depicted as both ridiculous and predatory, screeching and pawing at every half attractive man.
I think you're right, but I think there's a related aspect - a man must not seek or enjoy being penetrated, so he has to be forced and/or suffer consequences for doing so. It is not unmanly or unseemly for a man to do the penetrating, so you never see a seme resisting sex. It's the same for women - a woman should not seek to or enjoy "giving up her virtue", and so she's forced. In the US, traditionally in a horror movie, a woman is safe as long as she doesn't have sex. The moment she does that, you know she's going to get a chainsaw to the head. That's starting to go away, but you still see it.
These tropes are the result of systemic homophobia and misogyny - contempt for the receptive participant in the sex act.
The stereotypical misogynist is proud of all the penetrating they do, but at the same time despises the recipient. So, in their mind nobody should actually desire them. I've always thought it's a tragicomic and pitiful way to see the world. I know the same principle applies to gay dynamics.
yonghwa7 asked if the authors should care about the drivel they write, I think the above is one reason to care. Misogyny and homophobia are related, so much so that I don't even remember to mention it, it's such a given. Why needlessly jump on the bandwagon with a shared enemy.
Chelsea Black:
I just don't understand why there is a shocking lack of lube in BLs (History 4 excluded) but a huge use of fever reducing patches the next morning. Like seriously. this trope HAS to stop! Yes I get a lot of the sex is virginal / first time but we are in the internet age. Google!
Exactly! They could just google. The fact that they always get this wrong indicates lazy writing. I mentioned before how My Beautiful Man got it right, and it's telling that this novelist has written award winning novels even outside of the BL genre. And unlike most BL novels, hers are not self-published things that she slaps up online but, rather, novels that had been vetted and edited by a professional publishing house. A novelist like this does her homework. As a result, Kioyi never writhes in agony during sex, and never needs a doctor or fever reducing patches the next morning. And Hira uses lube -- baby oil to be precise.
I just don't understand why there is a shocking lack of lube in BLs (History 4 excluded) but a huge use of fever reducing patches the next morning. Like seriously. this trope HAS to stop! Yes I get a lot of the sex is virginal / first time but we are in the internet age. Google!
Exactly! They could just google. The fact that they always get this wrong indicates lazy writing. I mentioned before how My Beautiful Man got it right, and it's telling that this novelist has written award winning novels even outside of the BL genre.Maggi64:
Okay, I have to say, I always thought the authors didn't actually think they were being realistic, I thought it was some sort of weird Yaoi related obsession they have, it was so outlandish. I guess I was wrong.
