jpny01:
There is one other semi-common way a gay guy can get with a straight guy - in their late teens/early 20s, guys are open to experiment, and they might let you - this is starting to become an NC-17 discussion - do something that involves getting on your knees. There are 3 drivers: girls generally are not enthusiastic about doing that, whereas gay guys enjoy it, so generally we do it with a lot more enthusiasm and skill; they can shut their eyes and imagine a girl because no guy parts are touching them; and they can be as rough as they want - what's hot for me would probably feel like attempted murder for a teenage girl.
But that's clearly transactional, purely sexual, and he's thinking of someone else, so not really a Destined One True Love situation. But a lot better than being beaten to death.
I've actually seen the portrayal of a gay guy giving a straight guy a blow job in a couple of different movies/shows. It happened in that Dennis Leary show from 15 years ago called Rescue Me. The characters were all macho firemen, and one guy gets a roommate whom he discovers later on is gay. The gay guy tells him to close his eyes and pretend it's a woman's mouth on his penis, and proceeds to give him a blow job. I am sure such a thing happens in real life too.
So, yes, there is a situation wherein a straight guy can get jiggy with a gay guy. But a BJ under those conditions would be a one-shot sexual encounter, not a relationship. Moreover, the straight guy is imagining the gay guy as a girl which proves he is not open to having One Penis On The Planet go any further with him. In short, this sort of sexual encounter does not lead to a relationship in real life, while it often does so in BL's.
There is one other semi-common way a gay guy can get with a straight guy - in their late teens/early 20s, guys are open to experiment, and they might let you - this is starting to become an NC-17 discussion - do something that involves getting on your knees. There are 3 drivers: girls generally are not enthusiastic about doing that, whereas gay guys enjoy it, so generally we do it with a lot more enthusiasm and skill; they can shut their eyes and imagine a girl because no guy parts are touching them; and they can be as rough as they want - what's hot for me would probably feel like attempted murder for a teenage girl.
But that's clearly transactional, purely sexual, and he's thinking of someone else, so not really a Destined One True Love situation. But a lot better than being beaten to death.
Sorry to interfere -i ve got an objection- but "girls generally are not enthusiastic about that" is not true at all. I can guarantee that as as straight woman. It clearly depends on someone's likes/dislikes like everything else.
Another thing i 'd like to point out is the common mistake of considering only US as Western World.
For the Eastern World, west is also European countries and Balkan countries.
Yeap, in US its easier to come out as an LGBTQ person, whereas in southern european countries and Balkan ones, things are waaaaay more difficult. Strong patriarchal societies, religious mindset, "Family over all" mentality, conservatism to the bone etc.
ZhouYanRan:
Another thing i 'd like to point out is the common mistake of considering only US as Western World.
For the Eastern World, west is also European countries and Balkan countries.
Yeap, in US its easier to come out as an LGBTQ person, whereas in southern european countries and Balkan ones, things are waaaaay more difficult. Strong patriarchal societies, religious mindset, "Family over all" mentality, conservatism to the bone etc.
Vals Stor, I beg to differ. "The West", at least in my book, is more of a concept rather than a geographical location. I wouldn't consider post-Yugoslavian or Balkanic countries as The West. I see The West as those more progressive countries, whether it comes to politics, economy or a way of life, like the UK, Germany or France.
Sorry for going off topic, I will give you my reasons for liking BLs in the next post :)
Oh ok. But many people when talking about the west, are mostly referring to the US, even when talking about politics and that generalization is nonsense, cause the european continent has nothing to do with US in many aspects.
Indeed the three countries you mentioned-adding some of the northern ones, are the most progressive part of Europe
Another thing i 'd like to point out is the common mistake of considering only US as Western World.
For the Eastern World, west is also European countries and Balkan countries.
Yeap, in US its easier to come out as an LGBTQ person, whereas in southern european countries and Balkan ones, things are waaaaay more difficult. Strong patriarchal societies, religious mindset, "Family over all" mentality, conservatism to the bone etc.
Vals Stor, I beg to differ. "The West", at least in my book, is more of a concept rather than a geographical location. I wouldn't consider post-Yugoslavian or Balkanic countries as The West. I see The West as those more progressive countries, whether it comes to politics, economy or a way of life, like the UK, Germany or France.
Sorry for going off topic, I will give you my reasons for liking BLs in the next post :)
The general meaning of "The West" is the US & Canada plus Europe West & north of Poland & the Balkans. I'll just pause here and let everyone study a map and needlessly point out the Finland is east of Poland because there are a lot of people that are so literal that you can't generalize at all, meaning communication is impossible because there are no words that mean anything.
While it's true someone Chinese might consider everything from Kazakhstan westward "West", we're conversing in English, not Mandarin, so the West is defined per the above.
Another thing i 'd like to point out is the common mistake of considering only US as Western World.
For the Eastern World, west is also European countries and Balkan countries.
Yeap, in US its easier to come out as an LGBTQ person, whereas in southern european countries and Balkan ones, things are waaaaay more difficult. Strong patriarchal societies, religious mindset, "Family over all" mentality, conservatism to the bone etc.
Vals Stor, I beg to differ. "The West", at least in my book, is more of a concept rather than a geographical location. I wouldn't consider post-Yugoslavian or Balkanic countries as The West. I see The West as those more progressive countries, whether it comes to politics, economy or a way of life, like the UK, Germany or France.
Sorry for going off topic, I will give you my reasons for liking BLs in the next post :)
Bingo, you put it perfectly with "the West is more a concept than a location." One does not want to get technical about every line drawn on a map. Besides, when Asians think of the Western World they think of the US and Europe. I think the other commenter thought we were only including the US in our comments, cuz some people tend to think the US is the center of the world, lol.
Vals Stor:
Upper classes are generally more flexible in many things including homosexuality.
But in Turkey, even though its one of the less theocratic countries, no, homosexuality is still a huge problem for the majority of people-including upper classes. In addition, turkish people tend to be very concerned about one's private life, income, relationships, family-sometimes they even come as rude-its part of their mediterranean temperament, so when they suspect someone being gay, they will definetely interfere.
There's no way someone in Turkey to be gay and live a normal life without facing everything that a gay person suffers anywhere in the world-ok they dont shoot him-but still, their society cant tolerate homosexuality at all. They can hardly accept a hetero couple who live together without being married.
Of course it is a problem - but nobody is going to toss you off a building for being gay. I totally disagree about the concern over private life - within a social group or family, yes, but not in general. Nobody will ask you if you're gay or make a public assumption that you are. I've had no problem being gay there - although of course I don't discuss it. My grandparents were born during the Ottoman Empire, and they had no problem with it - one of my grandmother's closest friends was gay.
A university study in 2016 found that 33% of people thought LGBT people should have equal rights, which rose to 45% in 2020, which is a very rapid increase. In 2015, 27% supported gay marriage, 19% supported civil unions, 25% were opposed to any gay unions, and 29% were undecided. That is far from a universal abhorrence. If you took a poll of Chechen or Saudis, you'd get a much different result. In the USA, a larger number (31%) are opposed to gay marriage, although more support it, too.
I would definitely not live in the countryside, where everyone knows everyone's business as a matter of course - but if I did I'd either have been married off or moved to the city, where it's much easier and especially young people don't have a problem with gay.
Turkey is an odd case where there is a rather large secularist population, as well as an Islamist population, with most people more or less in the middle, being vaguely Muslim, i.e. never go to the mosque. The state is getting worse because the ruling party is Islamist and the president is a dictator, and for some reason, dictatorial regimes don't like gays. That creates liberal pockets in Istanbul, Ankara, and most of Izmir where you can see gay couples holding hands. So I think it's a lot more complex than you've painted it.
